Summary In this episode of Software Spotlight, host Michael Bernzweig interviews Alex Sanfilippo, founder of PodMatch, a platform that connects podcast hosts and guests. Alex shares his journey from a corporate career in aerospace to becoming an entrepreneur in the podcasting space. He emphasizes the importance of community engagement, the challenges of building a software platform, and the value of continuous learning and adaptation in entrepreneurship. The conversation also touches on the evolving landscape of podcasting and the opportunities for independent podcasters.
Summary
In this episode of Software Spotlight, host Michael Bernzweig interviews Alex Sanfilippo, founder of PodMatch, a platform that connects podcast hosts and guests. Alex shares his journey from a corporate career in aerospace to becoming an entrepreneur in the podcasting space. He emphasizes the importance of community engagement, the challenges of building a software platform, and the value of continuous learning and adaptation in entrepreneurship. The conversation also touches on the evolving landscape of podcasting and the opportunities for independent podcasters.
Takeaways
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Learn more about PodMatch http://softwareoasis.com/podmatch
Michael Bernzweig (00:02.57)
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I'd like to welcome everyone to this week's edition of the Software Spotlight. I'm your host, Michael Bernzweig the founder of Software Oasis. And this week, we're very fortunate to be joined live by Alex Sanfilippo. He's actually the founder of Podmatch. And with that, Alex, welcome to the podcast.
Alex Sanfilippo (00:24.95)
Michael, thank you so much for having me. been a long time coming. Thank you for rescheduling with me before. Just so everyone knows, this is a little side note, Michael is just a great guy. Like I think you can kind of get that from the podcast. If you're listening, if you haven't heard many episodes, you're just not sure, I can vouch for Michael. He's a great guy. He's been very gracious with me and he's helped me along the way over, I don't know how long we've been connected now, but anyway, like I said, long time coming, really just honored to be here today.
Michael Bernzweig (00:48.07)
Yeah, and you know, I have to say the feeling is mutual to be honest, Alex, even though Software Oasis started back in 1998, a long time ago, podcasting was not in our wheelhouse. And it was something I always wanted to try. And I will be honest with you. When, when we first started podcasting, the amount of time and effort, the
it was taking us to book the right guests, you high quality guests and all of that was just off the charts. And I think either yourself or someone on the team had reached out and they said, you know, we're so busy. I'm just going to throw it on the to-do list. And at one point we actually got back to it and haven't looked back since. So.
really has been mutually beneficial. But for anyone that's listening to the podcast that may not be familiar with either yourself or PodMatch, can you tell us a little bit about your personal journey getting to where you are and a little bit about everything going on out there over at PodMatch?
Alex Sanfilippo (01:52.268)
Yeah, for sure. And thanks again for being on the platform. So I actually come from a corporate background. So I did 15 years in big corporate and I was in the aerospace industry. Now, before anyone listening thinks I was something cool, like an astronaut, skydiver or fighter pilot, I worked behind a computer at a manufacturing company. were manufacturing parts and it was all focused below the atmosphere, but it was a career that I really enjoyed. And I did 15 years in that and I left on really good terms. It was a sad day when I left, but that's when I really kind of found my passion in podcasting. Like you, Michael, podcasting was like on my
to-do list or some day list for like a long time. When I finally got into it, I was like, I really like this a lot. And I had always wanted to do something in the creator space. And really, I think I just kind of found my lane and maybe so that was naturally that just happened. I kind of stepped into it. Of course, there was some ups and downs along the way, but ultimately it led me to starting PodMatch as you mentioned before. And for listeners who have no idea what that is, PodMatch is a software that automatically connects podcast guests and hosts for interviews. I always say it works very similar to a dating app, but instead of connecting for dates.
Michael Bernzweig (02:26.812)
Sure.
Alex Sanfilippo (02:50.03)
It connects you for podcast interviews. can message on the platform, schedule on the platform, all that. So you never have to change the email if you don't want to. And the whole idea is just putting the right people together, the guests and the host, to have the interview like us today, faster so that listeners lives can be served on a deeper level. And that kind of transitions being the personal side. For me, I am all about serving people. Personally, that is just like, that is just why I believe in my core. I love people first. I want to seek to serve anybody I can. And so I went from aerospace, a very cut and dry, if you can, like corporate job.
in stepping into this creator economy, I just found people that had that same mindset to love and to serve others. So for me, that's the foundation that comes from my faith in Jesus. And I just, I've built my relationships around that. I've built my business around that. And that's kind of who I am at the core. And I absolutely love what I do. I'm not saying there's not good days and bad, but I have an absolute blast doing this whole thing.
Michael Bernzweig (03:38.496)
And I think a big part of it, Alex, to be honest with you, you know, they say do what you love and the money will follow. And clearly you're doing what you love. And at the end of the day, is $6 for being in the community. I don't think the money was your prime motivating factor, but it seems like the community has grown really rapidly. And, you know,
quite dramatically. So I was really hoping we could focus on a little bit of your entrepreneurial journey, but I think the biggest thing the listeners would really enjoy hearing about is the community aspect of PodMatch.
Alex Sanfilippo (04:22.892)
Yeah, I'm glad you brought this up, Michael, because this is not something that's highlighted enough. And I really believe that's the foundation that makes this thing run. People are always like, wow, like Alex and Podmatch, they kind of go together, right? And Alex or Alicia, one of my co-founders who's also my wife, same thing. We were like, like without her, this thing doesn't really work. And that might be like bad to say from like a software perspective, we're looking to raise capital or sell or anything like that, but we're really not. having a good time.
And what we found is just being involved in the community has made it so much stronger. Not just from the actual like collaborative side of things, but also from the software side of things, because we're so involved in the community. People know that we're kind of like family and they're okay with saying like, there's something I think is broken. There's something here that can be improved. We love hearing that. And I think a lot of software companies, they try to push that off to a specific quote unquote team or push it away, right? For us, we're actually with the individuals, with the people, so we can see what's working, what's not.
For me, from both those perspectives, the community side has just been absolutely huge and we have just doubled down on that, especially I'd say after year two. And that's strangely enough, right? When our growth really started taking off, the first two years I was kind of finding my footing, but after that we just was like, you know what? The community side, that's what we're gonna get into. And since then it has just been really growing in a really healthy way and the community itself, like I said, it's really just a powerful group of people looking to accomplish something together.
Michael Bernzweig (05:48.608)
Yeah, I love it. And I think I remember very early on when your other half jumped in front of the mic for a little bit, and I think it was not her comfort zone. And I think I can identify with that because my wife would not be comfortable in front of the mic as well. So, you know, I think obviously finding the balance and finding where everyone fits into the equation is super important. And...
you know, as far as the community, mean, it sounds like you have really identified not only a niche that is a really large market.
but also a space where you're able to add some value to a lot of individuals that may or may not have a clue as to what they're doing and are really finding their way and exploring that journey along with you. I feel like I've explored the journey along with you and it has really helped to.
get to where we are in terms of the Software Spotlight. think we're approaching somewhere over 150 episodes and the podcast I'll share, all of the advertisements are fully sold out on an ongoing basis. So on that end of it, it's pretty exciting. And it's just been an amazing.
to meet some really incredible entrepreneurs. So from that end of it, on the community end of things, how do you find, like if you were to bullet point the few things that you think have been really helpful in growing the community and keeping the right people in the community and I guess also moderating the community because if you have a lot of people, it's an interesting dynamic.
Alex Sanfilippo (07:37.038)
Yeah, Michael, thank you for the kind words and congratulations on your success with the show. Like that's just incredible. So rare to see in podcasting. You've just done a really good job. And as a listener of your show, like it makes sense. I get it. Like I understand you've done really good. So on the community side of things, some, some like bullet points here, some high level stuff. I think the very first thing, like if I go back to when we launched the company and this is kind of indirectly answering your question, but I think it's important to highlight this for listeners. When we first started, the company did see immediate success.
And I started just listening to all the voices in software. I say all the voices. I went to all like the mainstream people, like it's all I could find at that point. And so I just started listening, okay, like, what do you do? What do do next? And the big trend I continuously heard was to separate yourself as the founder from the people using your software. And so at first I was kind of like, that seems out of alignment with who I am, but like, I get it. Cause when I was in corporate, like I, my managers had access to me, but not their employees. I'm like, so maybe it's the same idea.
And so I actually started building that, I'll never forget it. Michael, that we launched in 2020. So the world was kind of shut down. Everything was remote, in 2021, starting the second year of our business, I went to like the first in-person event that was available to us. And I showed up and I met a podcaster there who was really excited to meet me and he wanted to get a picture with me. talked for about three minutes and then he walked away and I was like, that was so cool. And then Alicia walks up. She goes, that's, I'm not going to say his name for the sake of transparency. She goes, that's so-and-so. She goes,
Michael Bernzweig (08:40.895)
Great.
Michael Bernzweig (09:01.215)
Sure.
Alex Sanfilippo (09:02.552)
He's our biggest member. He was like the first person to join and he shares it everywhere. And I didn't know that Michael. man, did my, like my heart broke right there. Like I was so disappointed and I felt dirty, honestly. I just felt like, like, what am I doing? Like that is not in alignment with who I am. Like I shared it, right, for sure. And I mentioned it at the beginning here, like loving people, seeking to serve people, like those are my personal core values, leading with value, honoring others.
Michael Bernzweig (09:05.608)
What?
Michael Bernzweig (09:13.448)
Yeah.
Michael Bernzweig (09:21.575)
Yeah, you want to be closer to your customer.
Alex Sanfilippo (09:31.822)
Those four things are kind of the pillars of my life. And I realized in this moment that I unintentionally was just out of alignment with that. And so I went back to the drawing board. like the first point, like the first bullet point I'm gonna give is this is an intentional effort. You actually have to do this. And I think that one of your former guests, Michael, said this really well. His name was Brandon. I can't recall his last name, but I know that the episode aired on April 29th, 2025, Unlocking Human Potential. Really great episode. Do you remember his last name? Sorry, I can't remember off the mic.
Michael Bernzweig (09:59.55)
Yeah, Brenton, I believe Falcone, if I remember correctly.
Alex Sanfilippo (10:03.968)
Okay. Well, I just want to, I wrote down something he said, like in my own personal notes. And he said, he said, if we're starting from scratch, how would we build this? And that's a similar question. I asked myself at that point, went home and said, okay, I'm not PodMatch is working really well. We learned that in our first in person event. I'm not working well. If I'm going to start from scratch and I'm to build this thing, like, what do I need to do? And so I think again, step one for everybody is to make the commitment. And this does require
a term I like to call doing things that don't scale. If you are going to be a community driven founder and you're going to focus on the community side, you are going to have to do things that don't scale. I'll be real, checking my community every day, responding to messages, responding to comments, that stuff doesn't scale. At some point I won't be able to do it all, but for now it's all me. And I think that that's the very first thing that we have got to commit to do.
Michael Bernzweig (10:50.003)
Yeah.
Michael Bernzweig (10:54.159)
And you know, the Brandon Falcon with FalconX. And if I remember right, I think he's right in your neck of the woods as well. his organization, and he's actually part of our community. And what's really exciting, his organization helps SaaS founders find product market fit. So.
Alex Sanfilippo (11:02.672)
cool.
Michael Bernzweig (11:14.683)
I can completely understand, you know, that interview was a really powerful one and, you know, it's so important to, you know, iterate, you know, figure out what it is that your clients are actually looking for and, you know, what is it that you can do that's going to add value to their world through your community or your platform, your solution, whatever it is, because at the end of the day,
you if you're not providing value, why would somebody stick around and how do you differentiate yourself from other companies? it's interesting and I think that's a really great point. so as far as community building, it seems like you've been very intentional. You you obviously have your, I believe the...
get together is quarterly where you have everyone and you have a lot of educational content and a lot of things outside the box that, know, corporate America is just not providing within their solutions. So a lot of things that you're doing that are just completely different that are helping to connect with everyone in the community. And how do you feel some of these things have resonated?
Alex Sanfilippo (12:33.112)
Yeah, so the quarterly event that we do, we do like a virtual half-day event Podcasting Made Simple Live is what we call it. And our podcast is an extension that's just called Podcasting Made Simple. The whole idea there is simplifying podcasting both for guests and hosts. And the interesting thing is we didn't launch with that podcast. I actually, for the first two years of the show, I had my own show independent of Podmatch that had former, before Podmatch as well. I was just using it to find my guests. So it's just like a...
It's funny, I've been paying for PodMatch since it came out as like individually because it wasn't associated with the business. So, I still do actually pay for my own account on the platform. which is funny, you know, like I got my own credit card in there and one time my credit card got changed and I was locked out of my PodMatch account, which is funny. But, anyway, I, I realized that once again, like when it was time to go all in on this, like reinventing me, I was like, it's time to let go of my entrepreneurship podcast.
Michael Bernzweig (13:03.199)
I love it.
Michael Bernzweig (13:10.675)
Yeah.
Alex Sanfilippo (13:25.986)
because I knew I couldn't do two shows, but as I started getting in the community, I realized there was a gap. It was in the education side of podcasting because we have some very new hosts that show up and we have some very new guests that show up. Of course we have an experience on both sides as well, but I realized like people are hungry to learn more. We're a community and group of people that they trust, but we don't really have anything for them beyond the software itself. And so that's basically the education arm of what we do. So our quarterly virtual events is bringing everyone together.
Michael Bernzweig (13:28.155)
And
Alex Sanfilippo (13:52.682)
our weekly episodes are released. The whole idea is like, this is a topic that keeps on coming up in our community. Let's get some content on it. And we typically bring in our own community members to teach on it. So like Michael, like if you're great at, let's just say like understanding where to take an interview to make it unique, that would be a great topic for actually, that would for real be a great topic for you to come on my show and actually talk about. Because I know that people are like, how do I make, how do I not just ask Alex the same 10 questions everyone asks them? And Michael, you've already done that in this episode that we're doing together.
That's a topic for our podcast. the whole idea is if, sorry, yeah.
Michael Bernzweig (14:23.517)
Yeah, I think that's so important, you know, to find, you know, for someone who's doing podcasts, day in and day out, you know, it's so challenging to find unique and different things to cover that haven't been talked about before. But, you know, at the end of the day, you know, our community is just like that. You know, it's a whole group of
organizations that are tech focused, know, niche consulting organizations that are looking to learn. So we have a weekly educational webinar, same idea, but when I go to your events, it's the best few hours of my day that I spend every quarter because I'll come away with a whole list of action items and details and things that can be improved. And I think that's another thing that I've taken away from.
you know, being within the Podmatch community is your learning is never done. Learning is never done in life. You you start a business, you learn, you grow to where you are, maybe you start another business at some point down the line, you go to school, but...
you know, it's really just a matter of, you know, what more can you learn? How can you improve? How can you, you know, push things forward just a little bit each day to get just a little bit better. And that's a big part of what I've taken from the community. So.
Alex Sanfilippo (15:44.078)
I actually really like hearing that because for me that's a big part of it. I go into the community and post my own questions and learn stuff as well because I'm not gonna be the person who acts like I know everything. I don't. So I like hearing that and I think that again beyond the events, just the day to day, like in the community side of what we do with PodMatch.
It's really important to me that there is ongoing interaction. It's a safe place where no one's going to be like, Alex, you're so dumb for asking that question, right? Like you mentioned earlier, like kind of pruning or, or purging is we say purge, but I'm realizing that's not really a nice word, but we purge some of people who join our platform. If they're just like, Hey, I can help you with that, but you got to pay me first. It's like, Hey, like we're, I'm down for you to earn business, but we got to start with some value, right? Like leading with values. I mentioned is one of my core values. want those values to be inside the community. So yeah, we're, very careful with.
Michael Bernzweig (16:33.69)
Yeah.
Alex Sanfilippo (16:40.258)
who stays in the community, but we don't want people to ever feel dumb. There's people that are pre-launched to their podcast. There's not a dumb question at that point, right? Like you don't know anything yet. And we want to be that place that's inclusive and helps people.
Michael Bernzweig (16:51.165)
Yeah, and at the end of the day, think you need to provide value, you know, no matter what you're doing before you can expect to see anything in return. And I'll share a quick little story with you that I haven't shared before. So as a young kid graduating from college, I went to a business school and I applied for a degree in entrepreneurship, which...
My mom turned to me and she's like, what the heck are you gonna do with a degree in entrepreneurship? What is this all about? She's like, my son, I'm paying this kind of money to send you to college to go for a degree in entrepreneurship. So to appease mom, I actually redid my degree and it was gonna be marketing and entrepreneurship, something useful and then something that I really wanted to do. anyway, so I came to my last half of my senior year.
And they announced to me that you're only getting one degree. Which one do you want? I'm like, what? They're like, you didn't fulfill the requirements for both degrees. And I'll be honest with I was so, well, you can imagine. just was not happy. So I went in, I spoke to the dean and he sat me down and he said, you know, Michael, he said, at the end of the day, if the only thing that you've taken away from this college is the ability to learn how to learn.
you accomplished what you needed to accomplish. And at the end of the day, at however old you are when you're a senior in college, it didn't feel right, but I realized looking back, he was exactly right. You just need to learn how to learn so that when you encounter something you've never seen before, which in business and entrepreneurship and life, you're gonna see a lot of things you've never experienced or expected to see before. And just figuring out how to.
how to push forward and push beyond whatever obstacle is in your way.
Alex Sanfilippo (18:48.35)
man, that's a great story. What an insightful thing to say, the ability to learn how to learn. mean, all education in a day, like that's really the core of all of it basically, right? Like it's strengthening that muscle. You basically like, can you figure this out by yourself, right? Like, can you go figure this out? And I guess that's a degree in entrepreneurship. Just those words, isn't it? If you can figure them out.
Michael Bernzweig (18:58.751)
Sure.
Michael Bernzweig (19:08.465)
Right there, right? So wrapping back around to entrepreneurship, so when you originally launched PodMatch, was it your very first business or where did you come up with the idea? Like, how did it all come together?
Alex Sanfilippo (19:26.54)
Yeah. So I actually, I tried some other things when I was in my corporate job. When I was a kid, I sold used golf balls. did that. Did some other things like growing up and stuff like that and did some stuff in real estate. My first like real long-term success. So was the corporate job. And toward the end of that is when I decided I wanted to become an entrepreneur. I was like, I've done this when I was a kid, like in through high school and just when I got out high school as well, like I wanted to go back to that. But, Michael, I tried all kinds of like side hustles, I guess is the term for him and everything I did, either I hated or it failed.
And what actually got me into podcasting was I was like, you know what? I'm going have a show to talk to people who have successfully left a nine to five job to become a full-time entrepreneur. I want to learn how they do it. And so that was the whole idea of the show. And I learned a few things. One of which was how to become an entrepreneur. Not saying there wasn't failures, of course, but I actually kind of learned that I wanted it to be in podcasting as well. And so that was sort of how that transition happened. Basically, learned way oversimplifying entrepreneurship. I learned four things.
Michael Bernzweig (20:12.019)
Yes.
Michael Bernzweig (20:23.743)
Sure.
Alex Sanfilippo (20:25.038)
Find an area of passion, which for me become podcasting, get into the community, which I started speaking at the events and I was like traveling around speaking at them and enjoying that community. Find a simple problem that community struggling with and offer the fastest possible solution. So that's one, two, three, four. So it's passion, community, problem, solution. And that's what I did with Podmatch. I'll never forget. It was actually right before the world shut down, beginning of 2020. I was speaking at a 2000 person podcasting conference when I got off stage. Anyone who would talk to me, I said, Hey, I'd love to meet you. had pen and paper in hand.
I wrote down just a few things, name, email address, and what their biggest problem was in podcasting, what they were struggling with. And I heard a lot of things that day, Michael, but the main thing was them describing PodMatch. They're saying having trouble connecting with the right guest. I can find people who want to be on, but not the right people or the administrative process in between finding a guest and actually booking them is too cumbersome. It's too much, right? And so I heard that a hundred times and that's, that's when I came home and decided like, that's the problem I want to solve. And ultimately within just a few months.
PodMash was the solution of that. And that's kind of what I've learned about entrepreneurship in the simplest form I could share it in.
Michael Bernzweig (21:28.689)
Yeah. And you know, it's, so interesting because it's the exact problem that I've had here. mean, running a, running a business, you know, podcasting is a fun and it's a nice other thing and it helps get you out of your comfort zone and trying some new things. But at the end of the day, I think everyone is kind of focused on running their business and
know, podcasting is something else that they might be doing along the way. and, know, mean, may not necessarily be the case for everybody that's out there listening, but a lot of organizations are, you know, podcasting as part of, of their whole ecosphere or their whole, whole paradigm. So as far as the community aspect,
you know, back in the early days, you know, if you wanted to do something like a community, you got out your coding and you started, you, you figured out how to launch a website, how to get it into the cloud. And you got a handful of engineers and you launched a solution now, you know, obviously. The, the whole concept of launching a community is a lot different. Have, have you found any tech that's enabled or made it?
more straightforward to get a community off the ground that you might want to share with the audience.
Alex Sanfilippo (22:49.102)
Yeah, I do. you know, think that Michael and I actually love your feedback on this because you're far well more versed than I am like in the software space. But I don't know if there's like a one size fits all solution. Like it could be a number of different things. I've seen people run really successful communities through Slack. I personally am not like a huge fan of like Slack for community building necessarily. feels like I think it's probably because we use it for project management. So like it feels like a job, not like community, but I've seen other people who do Facebook groups or some of these third party ones, which I'll talk about. But
Just, I'd be very curious to learn your perspective. know listeners would as well. is there, do you think there's a right or wrong answer to like how or what to use?
Michael Bernzweig (23:26.543)
No, not at all. I mean, I think you need to break it down into what elements of community are important, you know, for the type of community you're trying to build. And I think from your end of it, you know, and what do they say hindsight is 2020. So you're a few years into it, looking back on it, you can see which elements have been more important to the bod match community versus which elements have not been as important. But
you know, maybe from your perspective, you know, what are the different elements of the community platform that you're using are important to PodMatch and to the members? What do you say?
Alex Sanfilippo (24:09.186)
Yeah, that's a good point. think that, like you said, it's not a one size fits all, like what matters to you. I think a lot of people default to Facebook groups and initially that's what we did. And that's the reason I wasn't involved in the community for the first couple of years, because I didn't want to be. hate, like, I'll be real, I had like a love hate relationship with Facebook. I'm like, I don't want to go back into that. Like, I just don't, you know, so like Alicia was helping me. Yes, my goodness it is. And we had like thousands of people in it. was just anyway, so we had Alicia and one other part-time person was helping us just.
Michael Bernzweig (24:27.623)
Yeah, it's a very challenging space to moderate.
Alex Sanfilippo (24:38.946)
That was what they were just running the group. And when I came back and kind of that moment of, time to reinvent, right? Like I'm an entrepreneur, can come back and I gotta go back to that framework. It's getting into the community. I gotta be in the community. I gotta do this thing that doesn't scale. We ended up looking around, we found Mighty Networks. Mighty Networks is the community platform we use. And you even brought up like what's important to you. There was actually five things that mattered to me. A way to post, pretty simple, right? I think that's kind of 101.
but also a way that could send a notification. We wanted to actually notify people if they opted in, great. If they opt out, fine as well. But we just wanted there to be a way for there to be a notification, a way for people to comment back, a way to host events and a way to have our educational courses. Those were the five things that I was like, we have to find a platform that has this and Mighty Networks, just the way they've laid it out makes a lot of sense to me personally. Like I was like, I know how to navigate this. I won't get fatigued if I'm really gonna be in this and running a business.
Michael Bernzweig (25:04.415)
sure.
Michael Bernzweig (25:27.177)
Sure.
Alex Sanfilippo (25:32.182)
I need something that's not gonna wear me out. I could tell that was gonna be good one. So we've been with them since then and have enjoyed it. It's been years now and it's been a really great platform.
Michael Bernzweig (25:38.815)
Yeah.
No, it makes a lot of sense. I think, you know, if you compare and contrast, mean, if you look at Facebook or any other platform like that, that's Frank at the end of the day, you know, I think, you know, it brings in a giant audience, but at the same point, you know, many are not there for the right reason. Even just putting up a small fee, you know, just a few dollars, you know, is a filter in and of itself. You know, it really, you know, brings
aboard individuals that have a genuine interest in participating and being active in a community and being valuable members of a community. mean that's the whole, at the highest level, you you really want everyone to give and receive value from being in the community. I mean think that's, and if you've provided the space where that can happen, I think that's a big takeaway.
Alex Sanfilippo (26:40.012)
Yeah, I agree. what we decided to do more recently, Michael, is made the... podmatch.com, that's like the platform side and that's like, that's all paid. So like there's, all custom, all paid. we full like, I don't even, my software co-founder can tell me what they built, what we built it on, but it's all kinds of things. And then the platform we use for communities, Mighty Networks, and we recently decided to make it free so people that aren't on podmatch.com can actually be in the community as well. Cause we saw some people that...
Michael Bernzweig (26:57.726)
Yeah.
Michael Bernzweig (27:07.059)
that's interesting.
Alex Sanfilippo (27:08.078)
Yeah, and at first it was all like just paid and like a lot of people don't necessarily love that about PodMatch, but we just decided, hey, like it's a premium network. So the platform side like all paid, but we did again, start letting people into the community side for free because we just realized some of the pre-launch people, they're not ready to pay. And so we just kind of give them the guidelines saying, Hey, you're welcome to be here. This is not a place for you to spam, right? Like, there's not a place for you to be rude. Like you can come, you can learn what you need to learn.
Michael Bernzweig (27:29.981)
Right.
Alex Sanfilippo (27:32.471)
And then we just kind of hope that eventually they also migrate to the platform side of PyMesh to make sense for them, but it's been fun.
Michael Bernzweig (27:37.658)
That's so interesting because I'll be upfront with you. think we've ended up at the same point. The softwareoasis.com platform is paid. You know, at the end of the day, the consulting companies are forming strategic partnerships with other companies and they're seeing clients come as a result. So that makes sense. But the educational platform is a hundred percent free and that's our community platform. And you know,
it provides value to the, you know, both to the guests that are, you know, presenting to the community, but on the flip side of it, for anyone in the community, they can both learn, you know, from experts that are in the community and take something away of value, whether or not they're paying to be in the community or not. And I think that's...
that kind of, it checks another box, you know, in terms of, you know, making it all worthwhile. Everything is not just about the dollars and cents, you know.
Alex Sanfilippo (28:41.026)
Yeah, I agree with that. It's not all about the dollars and cents. And I was realizing that we wanted to, we wouldn't help people that were getting into it as well. Like, and the reality is people that are existing members of PodMatch that are in the community, they like helping new people as well. Like they have, if you've been podcasting for a week, you know a lot more than someone who's a week, like doing a week less than you, right? Or like pre-launch. So we just found that it actually made the community stronger. And it's interesting, Michael, one thing I hear from a lot of people that are podcasting industry people, when we first launched,
They're like, you have just a bunch of really small podcasts on there and guests that aren't really well versed yet. And I was like, okay, like we're just starting somewhere. And now the most common thing I hear is people say, how have you gotten so many high quality podcast hosts and guests to join your platform? Like, what is the secret? What are you doing? And all I realized is Michael, is they're part of the community from day one. They've been with us. I'm like, when they joined, they had one episode and they weren't very good yet. Now they've been with us for years. They have 400 plus episodes and they're the podcasts. Everyone wants the podcast. Everyone wants to meet.
Michael Bernzweig (29:32.212)
Yeah.
Alex Sanfilippo (29:37.038)
And it's because we just started building that relationship from day one. so for us, again, if we had to have a free, buried entry on our community side, great. We just want to start building those relationships, not so they can become somebody and things like that, but so we can actually help them. That way they can help their listeners. And because of that, it's given us a really great reputation in podcasts. And we were like, how is this possible? We kind of just noticed and loved people before others did.
Michael Bernzweig (29:37.215)
Sure.
Michael Bernzweig (29:59.464)
And I'll share with you, think we've been on the platform for maybe a couple of years at this point and Software Spotlight was the very first podcast and there were points at which I wondered if we would continue with the podcast and you kind of encouraged. I'm glad we stuck with it, but at this point from going to your different summits, what became apparent was that we have three very different audiences in our community.
and it absolutely made sense to break out the podcast to focus on each audience. So now we have, and I think they're all live within the PodMatch community now, we have the Software Spotlight, Consulting Spotlight, which is focused on the consulting community within our organization. And then we have Career Spotlight, which is kind of giving back. It's for anyone that wants to get into tech and into...
tech careers so they can understand, hey, what does it mean to be a UI, UX developer? What does it mean to be a web designer? What does it mean to be a social media manager? So that's Career Spotlight. And I think that was the...
Michael Bernzweig (31:54.236)
I think that is definitely one of the fun things about getting up and running with a different podcast.
Michael Bernzweig (32:34.713)
one of the fun things about podcasting.
Alex Sanfilippo (32:38.198)
Yep. I just waited here patiently. Do you remember where you left off? I wrote it down so I'd remember. You just finished going through your three podcasts and then said, that's why, and that's kind of where ended. We're back.
Michael Bernzweig (32:39.905)
Haha, I love it.
Michael Bernzweig (32:48.345)
We're back, we're alive. So yeah, now I think, you know, having the insight, you know, from having been in the PodMatch community to understand that there's definitely a real value on focusing on your core audience and the different profiles of the individuals in your audience and serving each of the different members of the community. think there's a lot of value to that.
Alex Sanfilippo (33:18.434)
Yeah, I want to highlight the fact that you broke your podcast into three separate shows. What you just highlighted there, I believe, is the fact that you know your audience. And that really only happens if you're into the community, talking to people. And I think that too many of us, again, like as founders in the software space, we kind of trust our teams, our data, and that stuff is good. But like talking to another human can really, really teach you something. Because if you didn't listen to that, Michael, you'd probably have one show. And you have three people being like, this episode with Alex isn't for me. I wish there was something more on jobs, right?
Michael Bernzweig (33:42.274)
Yeah.
Alex Sanfilippo (33:48.264)
You wouldn't know that without meeting with people. And I think that for all of us as founders or people that are in software, wherever your role is, make sure that you are somehow, someway connected with the community. It keeps your heart on the pulse, right? So you know, like, okay, where's this thing going and who is it that we're serving? The last thing you want is to lose touch and head in the wrong direction. Cause that can cost a lot of time and a lot of money and not really help people very much.
Michael Bernzweig (33:51.225)
Okay.
Michael Bernzweig (34:09.335)
Yeah, and I think the other amazing thing about community, I can tell you, you know, we've, over the last couple of years, interviewed hundreds of individuals within our community to understand, you know, to get the product to where it needs to be, you know, just the
amount of feedback is like unbelievable. I'm, you know, I can see the same thing on your end. You know, you have that passion for getting the platform and everything to where it is and getting rid of what's not needed and fixing the little details that don't make sense, you know, to individuals so that it's a smooth experience. And I think that's, that's how you, get to the point where you've refined the product and you've iterated to the point that it's, it's where it's at.
Alex Sanfilippo (34:59.064)
Yeah, you for that kudos to you talking that many people you know I think that the one thing I'll add that real quick is I think it's important is that for many of us myself included as a founder talking to people and
wanting to hear the good, the bad, the ugly, that hurts a little bit. Like what I built is my baby, right? Like, and someone's gonna be like, your baby's ugly. Like it hurts, right? Like, but we've got to develop some thick skin in that way by removing ourselves from the equation. Like it's not about us. People don't mean it in a negative way. They mean it cause they care. They want to help you. And I think that when we hear something that's not necessarily fully positive, it means there's an area to improve. And Michael, obviously I'm sure you had something that happened because there's no way you were batting a thousand, right? Like.
Michael Bernzweig (35:16.225)
Sure, sure.
Alex Sanfilippo (35:36.738)
When you're telling people, you're like, okay, there's room for improvement. You built what people wanted because you talked to them, you're willing to hear them.
Michael Bernzweig (35:39.833)
Absolutely. I'll be honest with you. I'm not sure I would have used our first release either. But, know, where it's at now, I mean, I'm really proud, you know, and thrilled. It's something that I would use myself. like pod matches, something that you're using yourself, you know, at the end of the day. You're not only one of the founders, but you're a proud user. So, and I guess one other...
Alex Sanfilippo (35:45.294)
Right. Yeah.
Alex Sanfilippo (35:54.171)
I love that. Yep.
Alex Sanfilippo (36:03.718)
Yeah, yeah absolutely.
Michael Bernzweig (36:08.889)
question that I saw come in from some in the audience. Can you talk a little bit about the focus of the community? for someone that's joining PodMatch and just getting up and running, obviously this is the whole educational component of it, but can you kind of bullet point what the details are that someone gets from becoming part of the PodMatch family?
Alex Sanfilippo (36:38.374)
Yeah, so it's all about connecting guests and hosts for interviews. Everything we do is around those lines and that the long tail of it is we help hosts learn how to improve and we help guests learn how to improve. And all of it, once again, kind of goes back to the green room or where Michael and I are right now in the recording studio, right? Like it brings you to that. And the whole idea around it is just, can we stay focused on that? We had recently a number of members actually reach out and ask, Hey, can you all help
build websites for podcasters. It's just not what we do. Like we have partners and we can pass people along to that, but like that's not what we're doing. We're focused on like, hey, what's going to help make you a better interviewer? Like, do you need a new microphone? Is it better recording software to use? Like, what is it? the focus of it, that's it, right? Like, and for me, it is all just like a narrow focus on like, what makes these two people better together so they can serve listeners. And we always return everything in that. So if we're even looking at the development board,
Michael Bernzweig (37:04.973)
Right.
Michael Bernzweig (37:14.109)
staying focused on your core, right?
Alex Sanfilippo (37:27.382)
If it doesn't do those things, it ranks really low on when we're actually gonna develop it. The idea is, what can we do to stream on this process and make it better for everybody? So in the community side, on the software side, across the board, those are the type of conversations that are happening, or how do we level this thing up?
Michael Bernzweig (37:41.753)
So who is in the community? If you were to boil it down to a couple of profiles, who are the individuals in the community?
Alex Sanfilippo (37:49.888)
Yeah, I'd say we actually lean really heavy sales, marketing, business, entrepreneurship on both the host side to the podcast themselves. And the guests are very similar. They're typically people that are, have done really well in business and exited or they're entrepreneurs, they're marketers, they're SEO people. Like they're kind of going to that trend. That's how we kind of identify our avatars. Now the long tail is we have a ton of golf podcasts on PodMatch. I know nothing about golf, Michael. So like I just kind of let that go.
And we've got true crime and all that stuff. But the reality is we really know that that business category on both sides, the professional side, that's who we know is really our core.
Michael Bernzweig (38:25.889)
And do you think that might be because of who Alex is or do you think that's what the community has gravitated towards or a little bit of both?
Alex Sanfilippo (38:34.794)
It's a little bit of both, Michael. At first, I kind of blame myself. I'm like, man, am I too businessy? If that's even a word, is it too much? But when I actually, I can't remember the company, but one of the big companies sent out a report, I think it was Edison Research. But they sent a report showing the top categories in podcasting, business, marketing, sales. Those are the big categories. I'm like, oh, so it's not all me. It's just that's where a lot of the podcasters hang out, the people have shows.
Michael Bernzweig (38:58.467)
Sure.
Alex Sanfilippo (39:00.842)
A byproduct is the guests that are attracted to podcasting ones that are also in those groups and categories.
Michael Bernzweig (39:06.009)
And I've also noticed a good core group of agencies within the ecosystem. Are you finding that it's attracting agencies for a particular region, region or?
Alex Sanfilippo (39:19.934)
Yeah, so the the agency side so we have PodMatch like where you can represent hosting guests We have people that like are representing some of them up to like 10 20 different people they represent again some mix of hosting guests We've found that we really work well with the independent ones And so they're all over the globe, which is really cool But most of them are in those similar categories and they're typically small It's typically a one or two person shop that's kind of running that and they've just got a small portfolio of business. They run PR for people so
Yeah, we built that model because we knew a few people that wanted it. They're in our community. like, I would use that. So we launched it for that reason. I'd say we probably have 100. I don't know the exact number, but a rate around 150, probably just over 150 different agencies using PodMatch as well.
Michael Bernzweig (40:02.999)
Yeah, and it's providing value to a whole different ecosystem. And it's interesting. It's interesting. Cause I think a lot of, know, if you look at the agency model within podcasting, it's very fragmented, you know, at the end of the day, it's not, very well defined. And the flip side of it, there is a huge need.
Alex Sanfilippo (40:06.595)
Yeah.
Michael Bernzweig (40:24.409)
Um, there are a lot of executives that literally just don't have the time to even, you know, as easy as pod matches and as streamlined as you've made it, you know, the, the time to take away from running their business to really figure out, Hey, what show should I be on? Let's go through all the demographics, all the details of the show, get in front of the right audience. And, uh, so I think agencies can provide a lot of value there. And I think PodMatch provides a lot of value to the agencies. So.
I noticed that and I thought that was really interesting.
Alex Sanfilippo (40:54.936)
Yeah, thanks.
It's funny that you mentioned that we had a discussion in the community side of PodMatch. And it was an agency asking like, Hey, I don't know if the person I'm representing is be angry if they find out have a PodMatch profile because they could just do it themselves. And I responded saying, Hey, like, if you hired in a corporation to be an accountant, and your CEO found out using a calculator, like, are they going to be mad that you're using a calculator or like, and that was kind of example I gave a lot of people agreed they're like, Hey, the person you hired, they hired you because they wanted to work with you not because they care what
tools you use, right? At the end of the day, PodMatch is a tool. But that was an interesting thing that came up. I'm like, do we purposely try to hide all those profiles so people never find out? And the consensus was, no, actually, it adds more credibility if my boss knows I'm using PodMatch because I'm using a credible source to find them guesting spots or to find guests for their shows. And so that was another interesting thing that came out of the community that I would have never thought of.
Michael Bernzweig (41:26.646)
Exactly.
Michael Bernzweig (41:46.239)
Yeah, and it's interesting, you we have something similar because the community allows all of the organizations to find strategic partners. But, you know, we actually have a service where we actually help the organizations on the platform in a more
managed service, I guess I would say, find strategic partners. And we're using the same platform that people can use themselves. But at the end of the day, sometimes, you know, just having the accountability of having another organization, you know,
Every week you're going to have a meeting with a new partner and you know, that that's neat. You know, it's going to hold you accountable. It's going to push your business forward. You can do it yourself or you can have someone do it for you. So it's really, really kind of interesting and very, very similar. So I'll wrap up with as, as you've kind of got your, your journey to where it is what in podcasting and in the whole, because you sit in a very unique space.
What excites you over the next few years? What are the things, the trends that you see on the horizon that you think are really exciting?
Alex Sanfilippo (42:59.566)
So I'm on the independent podcaster side. much smaller shows, I don't really track the top 1000. Like even our industry report is all focused toward our community, which is independent podcast guest and host. Like we do everything for that group of people. I'm seeing them get the ability to elevate their voice in a way they never have before. I'd say previously, you go back five years in podcasting, there was a big separation between the big shows, right? Like the network shows, if I named them right here, everyone would know what I'm talking about and everyone else.
And there might still be a difference with those from things like download numbers and things like that. But I'm seeing the ability to have a really good quality show. The line is starting to blur a little bit. So if a show costs $20,000 produced, you can't tell as much of a difference anymore from a show that is just costing a couple hundred dollars a month to run. People can do a really good job at a small level. So what gets me excited about it is that these smaller shows are getting discovered by the right listeners for them. And it's getting easier and easier to make that happen at the same time.
Michael Bernzweig (43:46.809)
Sure.
Alex Sanfilippo (43:57.516)
listenership in podcasting is still like just growing like crazy. Like it is just growing so fast. So for me, knowing that there's a big future for people and companies on the independent level of podcasting, they don't have to be a fortune 500 necessarily. They don't have to be an actor, actress or anything like that to run a successful show. That makes me really excited about the future of this thing.
Michael Bernzweig (44:16.717)
Yeah, and I think that is amazing. It has leveled the playing field in a space that really was controlled by dollars in the past, and now it's really open to everyone.
Alex Sanfilippo (44:33.068)
Yeah, that's exactly it. I think that makes it a really exciting future. So it's a community that I am just honored and really excited to be part of.
Michael Bernzweig (44:39.319)
Yeah, absolutely. And I really appreciate your taking the time to join us on Software Spotlight today. From this end of it, not only am I very appreciative to everything that PodMatch is all about, but it's been a...
great community to be part of and for anybody that is listening to the episode and saying, what the heck is this Pod Match all about? Just go to podmatch.com and check it out and see if it's the right fit. And we'll leave a link in the show notes for anybody that would like to connect and reach out. And you had mentioned that the other platform is open to all.
So where would they find the other platform to get involved in some of those get togethers?
Alex Sanfilippo (45:29.644)
Yeah, if you go to podmatch.com, you'll see the menu. There's one that actually says community, one of the items, and you can go down through that and you can just, you'll be able to find it, make it very simple. So in the header or in the footer, you'll see podmatch community side of things there.
Michael Bernzweig (45:41.059)
There go, less is more. So I love it. Well, that's fantastic. So I'd like to thank you for joining us on the podcast today. For anybody that's listening for the first time, in addition to Software Spotlight, we also have the Career Spotlight and the Consulting Spotlight, both on all of your favorite podcast players. So you can.
Alex Sanfilippo (45:43.351)
Yep.
Michael Bernzweig (46:06.197)
subscribe to any of those. And if you'd like to find out about everything going on over here at Software Oasis, just go to softwareoasis.com backslash subscribe. We have weekly newsletter that goes out with all kinds of data trends, research, and all kinds of different insights into the B2B tech space. So thanks for joining us today. We've had Alex Sanfilippo, founder of podmatch.com.
Thanks for being with us on the Software Spotlight today.
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